中国驻英大使刘晓明舌战BBC新闻之夜主播专访中英语实录-【新闻】

2015年10月16日，驻英国大使刘晓明在英国BBC强档品牌节目“新闻之夜”（Newsnight）演播室接受该节目主持人埃文·戴维斯（Evan Davis）直播专访，介绍习近平主席对英国国事访问有关情况，并回答有关中国经济，网络安全，中英经贸、投资合作，人权等提问。

中国驻英大使刘晓明“舌战”BBC现场视频：点击

驻英国大使刘晓明

On 23rd January 2012, Chinese ambassador to UK Liu Xiaoming had a live and one-on-one interview with Jeremy Paxman on BBC 2’s Newsnight programme.

驻英大使刘晓明新年期间接受BBC晚间新闻节目Newsnight主持人帕克斯曼(Jeremy Paxman)专访。访谈由BBC Two 于10:30PM Mon, 23 Jan 2012 播出。访问部分全长7分钟。

The China Times has retrieved the detail of the interview from BBC, the audio download and transcript of the interview go as follows, you may also visit the Chinese version (驻英大使刘晓明接受BBC专访) on our website, or watch the video on BBC.

采访实录：

Jeremy Paxman: Happy New Year! Mr. Ambassador.

帕克斯曼：大使先生，新年好!

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: Thank you.

刘大使：新年好!

Jeremy Paxman: Let’s try to define our terms. Are you a communist?

帕克斯曼：您是一个共产主义者吗?(Let’s try to define the terms, are you a communist?)

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: Well, in China, the ruling party is the communist party. The communist party now has more than 80 million party members. But you have to remember China is a country with 1.3 billion people. So I don’t think you can call China a communist country, just as you can not call the UK conservative UK.

刘大使：中国共产党在中国是执政党，拥有超过8000万党员。但是中国有13亿人口，因此不能说中国是共产党国家，就像不能说英国是保守党国家一样。

Jeremy Paxman: But you could call the UK a capitalist country.

帕克斯曼：但可以说英国是资本主义国家。

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: And we say China is a socialist country. We could call China a socialist country with Chinese characteristics.

刘大使：中国是社会主义国家，实行的是中国特色的社会主义。

Jeremy Paxman: Talking to the young people, in particular in Beijing, I very strongly got the impression that they were pretty optimistic about China’s international role. They saw this as a century which was developing very much in a way that was going to make China a much more significant force in the world. Do you think that?

帕克斯曼：我不久前去北京采访，与不少年青人交谈。给我留下深刻印象的是，他们对中国在国际上发挥的作用很有信心，认为中国将成为21世纪一支不断崛起的重要力量。你也这么认为吗?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: China will certainly contribute its part for maintaining peace and prosperity of the world. But we do not see China as a superpower. I would characterize China as the largest developing country with increasing international influence and responsibilities.

刘大使：中国为世界和平和繁荣做出越来越大的贡献，但我不认为中国是一个超级大国。应该说，中国是一个国际影响力和国际责任都在不断扩大的最大的发展中国家。

Jeremy Paxman: But people look at what China does on the UN Security Council, for example, over the question of—you opposed the sanctions on Syria, sanctions on Iran, and they wonder, you know, what you are trying to achieve?

帕克斯曼：但人们不理解中国在联合国安理会的所做所为，如中国反对制裁伊朗和叙利亚。人们在问，中国的目的是什么?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: That’s not the right impression. In fact, China voted four times with other members of the Security Council on the issue of Iran. China is strongly opposed to Iranian nuclear weapon programme. But on the other hand, we believe diplomatic and peaceful solution is the most beneficial solution to the problem. It costs less and it’s in the interest of maintaining peace and stability in the region.

刘大使：这种看法并不正确。中国曾四次投票支持联合国安理会涉伊核问题决议。我们明确反对伊朗拥有核武器。但与此同时，中方认为，通过外交手段和平解决伊核问题才是最佳途径。和平解决的代价最低，而且有利于维护地区的和平稳定。

Jeremy Paxman: But do you accept that Iran is a potential threat to world peace, a nuclear armed Iran?

帕克斯曼：中方是否认为伊朗拥核会对地区和平稳定构成潜在威胁?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: I would say, yes, Iran with nuclear weapons is not in the interest of peace and stability in the region. So that is why China made it very clear from day one that we are strongly opposed to Iran developing nuclear weapons. That has been reaffirmed by Chinese premier in his recent visit to the region.

刘大使：一个拥有核武器的伊朗不利于地区和平与稳定。所以中方从一开始就明确反对伊朗发展核武器。温家宝总理不久前访问海湾国家时再次重申了这一立场。

Jeremy Paxman: So why not impose sanctions, then?

帕克斯曼：那么为什么不能制裁伊朗?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: There are already sanctions in place. But we don’t think sanction for the sake of sanction serves the purpose. We also encouraged peaceful negotiations to engage Iran for a peaceful settlement of this issue.

刘大使：现在已有制裁措施在实施之中。但我们反对为了制裁而制裁。这样做徒劳无益。我们鼓励各方与伊朗通过外交谈判以和平方式解决有关问题。

Jeremy Paxman: Do you think China has a moral role in the world?

帕克斯曼：你认为中国在世界上能够发挥道义作用吗?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: I think China has a role to play, in terms of building a more peaceful, harmonious world.

刘大使：我认为，中国在维护世界和平、构建和谐世界方面能够发挥自己应有的作用。

Jeremy Paxman: But what do you try to promote? The United States, for example, says it promotes, and will go to war, to promote democracy. What do you try to promote?

帕克斯曼：中国在国际上主张什么?想推动实现什么?比如美国为了推行民主不惜发动战争。中国想推行什么?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: We are promoting a harmonious world. We believe the world will be more peaceful, prosperous, if all countries respect each other, rather than imposing their own ideas and systems onto others. We believe mutual respect, mutual accommodation and working together for the common good, common security is in the interest of peace and stability of the world. So we are strongly opposed to any military solutions.

刘大使：中国致力于构建和谐世界。我们主张国与国相互尊重、相互包容，而不是把自己的价值观和社会制度强加给别人，这样的世界才更加和平，更加繁荣。我们主张世界各国携手努力，保障各国共同安全与福祉，维护世界和平与稳定。我们坚决反对在国际事务中诉诸武力。

Jeremy Paxman: What about economic power? China sits on this mountain of trillions of dollars worth of foreign exchange. What’s that for?

帕克斯曼：现在我们来谈谈中国的经济实力。中国现在拥有数万亿美元的外汇储备，这么多钱干什么用?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: What’s that for?? China is still a relatively poor country. Though China now is number two in terms of GDP, after only the United States. But in per capita GDP, China is still behind 100 countries. There are still about 700 million people living in the countryside. And there are about 150 million people living under one US dollar a day, that is the UN poverty line. So there is an enormous responsibility for the Chinese government to improve livelihood of those parts of the population of China.

刘大使：What’s that for?? 中国仍然是一个相对不富裕的国家。虽然中国的经济总量仅次于美国，居世界第二。但中国人均GDP在全球仍排在100位以后。中国仍有近7亿人生活在农村。按照联合国每天1美元的贫困线标准，中国仍有1.5亿人生活在贫困线之下。脱贫致富、改善民生仍是中国政府的重要职责。

Jeremy Paxman: And let’s talk a little bit about that difficult matter of human rights. Ai Weiwei, the well known artist, says that without free speech, you are living in a barbaric world. Do you understand what he’s getting at?

帕克斯曼：现在谈谈人权这个棘手问题。知名艺术家艾未未曾说，缺乏言论自由的世界是蛮荒之地。你是否能理解他在说什么?

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: I think Ai Weiwei has his freedom to express his view. Otherwise how could you get his opinion on this?

刘大使：艾未未并不缺乏言论自由，否则，怎么知道他讲了什么?

Jeremy Paxman: Unfortunately, he has been in prison of course, isn’t it?

帕克斯曼：不幸的是，他的言论使他遭受牢狱之灾。

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: No, he was under investigation on suspicion of evading tax, destroying his accounting books. In any country of rule by law, you have to respect and abide by the law. Nobody in a country ruled by law should be above the law. So even a so-called well-known artist has to abide by the law. When he violates Chinese law, he should be punished. There’s no doubt about that in China, I guess it’s the same in Britain.

刘大使：你的说法不对。事实是，他曾因涉嫌逃避缴纳巨额税款、故意销毁会计凭证等犯罪行为而受到调查。在任何法治国家，公民都需要尊重、遵守法律，没有人可以凌驾于法律之上，即使所谓知名艺术家也不例外，触犯了法律，就要受到法律的制裁。这在中国如此，在英国恐怕也是一样。

Jeremy Paxman: He should be free to say what he likes, shouldn’t he?

帕克斯曼：但艾未未应该有自由表达言论的权利。

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: If he is forbidden to voice his opinions, how could you get to know them?

刘大使：对这一点我已经说过了，如果艾未未没有自由表达言论的权利，你怎么会知道他的言论?

Jeremy Paxman: All right, Mr. Ambassador, thank you very much.

帕克斯曼：非常感谢刘大使接受采访。

Ambassador Liu Xiaoming: Thank you for having me.

刘大使：也非常感谢你们的邀请。

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